 | 8 |
 | Robert Clyne |
 | 1916 |
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The upturned hull of HMS Natal - c1916
The Natal was sunk in the firth in 1915, by an explosion in the magazine. This shows the hull before it was dismantled.
Picture Added on 30 January 2004.
Comments
I agree - I was brought up in Invergordon and lived here all my life and the first I heard of Natal was on this website where I've gathered bits of information. Are the ships ruins still in the Firth?
Added by Joey on 29 January 2005.
Added by Joey on 29 January 2005.
The steel from the ship was salvaged over the years. Firstly the Navy blew up the Hull as it was regarded a hazard to shipping. The steel/salvage was brought to the woody pier next to the West Harbour in barges from the main salvage vessel. There were large guns and small arms amongst the haul. We used to find cordite and had set it alight on the beach. There is an isolated danger buoy over the wreck site in the Firth although rigs anchor not far from it now. The wreck itself is, I believe, quite flat now.
Added by SubC on 30 January 2005.
Added by SubC on 30 January 2005.
Hurrah for the Invergordon Museum! - I'm studying for an MSc Heritage and Museum Studies, and will hang onto the notes from Bill Geddes and Joey against the day when I'm asked for concise proof that museums serve a purpose. Without museums we can indeed let the past be forgotten.
The loss of HMS NATAL, and the Invergordon Mutiny, perhaps slipped from LOCAL memory because for historic reasons the Royal Navy 'traditionally' recruited from the southern half of England: in northern England and Scotland service in the Army was more common. There is a memorial in Portsmouth Cathedral to those lost in the NATAL - unusual for a naval memorial because it records the deaths of a naval officer and his wife who died together in the disaster. As for the Invergordon Mutiny, naval historians could tell a great deal to anyone who wished to know - it was a watershed event in the 20th Century social history of the Royal Navy. See Anthony Carew's 'The Lower Deck of the Royal Navy 1900-39 - Invergordon in Perspective' - Invergordon Library must surely have a copy.
Added by Mark Brady on 30 January 2005.
The loss of HMS NATAL, and the Invergordon Mutiny, perhaps slipped from LOCAL memory because for historic reasons the Royal Navy 'traditionally' recruited from the southern half of England: in northern England and Scotland service in the Army was more common. There is a memorial in Portsmouth Cathedral to those lost in the NATAL - unusual for a naval memorial because it records the deaths of a naval officer and his wife who died together in the disaster. As for the Invergordon Mutiny, naval historians could tell a great deal to anyone who wished to know - it was a watershed event in the 20th Century social history of the Royal Navy. See Anthony Carew's 'The Lower Deck of the Royal Navy 1900-39 - Invergordon in Perspective' - Invergordon Library must surely have a copy.
Added by Mark Brady on 30 January 2005.
Yes, I agree about museums. But the point I was making is that in a town where not much (of National interest) has happened over the years it is astonishing that the two events referred to were never mentioned during my education in the town where they occurred. You would at least think that the subject would have come up in History classes. What better way to interest kids in the past than telling them what had happened in their own town. Hopefully things have changed now. When I was at school, history ended in 1746. (I suspect this has something to do with a perception that Scotland ceased to exist as a nation after this date.
Added by Bill Geddes on 30 January 2005.
Added by Bill Geddes on 30 January 2005.
In Cromarty in the late 60s and early 70s we were taught about the Natal because at the time its wreck was being blown up to make the explosive stores safe. We used to find bits of cordite on the beach which we would set off in a variety of ways.
Added by Garve Scott-Lodge on 31 January 2005.
Added by Garve Scott-Lodge on 31 January 2005.
An exhibition about HMS Natal will commence in Invergordon Museum, April 2005 and will run for a few months.
Added by Colin D Mackenzie on 02 February 2005.
Added by Colin D Mackenzie on 02 February 2005.
My grandfather was on board HMS Natal the night it exploded. He survived and was hospitalised and sent to the Chatham Naval Hospital.
We have a hand written account writtten by him describing how he got away.
I can send a scan for the exhibition. Please could you send more details of the April exhibition (Colin D Mackenzie entry)?
Added by Philip Solomon on 04 February 2005.
We have a hand written account writtten by him describing how he got away.
I can send a scan for the exhibition. Please could you send more details of the April exhibition (Colin D Mackenzie entry)?
Added by Philip Solomon on 04 February 2005.
The exhibit on HMS Natal is currently being compiled for display this year. However, it will be a permanent exhibit and any contributions similar to that mentioned by Philip Solomon will be highly valued.
Added by Malcolm McKean on 10 February 2005.
Added by Malcolm McKean on 10 February 2005.
Philip, thank you for your offer. The museum would be very interested in your grandfather's account. We are working on a long-term exhibition on the Natal which will open later this year (exact date tba). It will include information on the Natal's career and sinking, photographs, and objects recovered from the ship or otherwise related to it. Information gathered for the display is being compiled into research folders which will be available to the public. The comments posted on this site and on the Cromarty image library show what a great interest there still is in the subject.
Added by Estelle Quick on 25 February 2005.
Added by Estelle Quick on 25 February 2005.
I have various memories of the 'Natal' history over the years being from Invergordon originally. My grandmother, Catherine Askew nee MacLennan, was brought up in the shore area as was the daughter of a blacksmith who had premises towards the bottom of King Street and stayed in Hugh Miller Street. She recalled the day the Natal blew up at anchor, hearing a tremendous explosion, and being only a young child running with her mother towards the pier known to my generation as the stone arm (beside the present Port Authority building). The view of the Firth was obstructed at that time by the Dockyard fence which at that time ran along the length of Shore Road and nothing could be seen. She later became aware of the full tragedy and her mother, my great-grandmother, along with other local women, was involved in the dressing of bodies from the Natal in the Masonic Hall (Outram Street building?). As a young boy my grandfather who came to Invergordon in 1923 with the Royal Navy and latterly worked on the Harbourmaster's (MOD) pilot boat spoke of grounding on the remains of the 'Natal' hulk. Part of the hull from early salvage attempts lay on waste ground beside Shore Road for a number of years although I cannot recollect this personally. I myself have vivid memories of when the Royal Navy clearance diving team from Rosyth first came up to the Cromarty Firth about 1970(?) to level the wreck. Warnings were printed in the Ross-Shire about the impending detonations beforehand. I can recall sitting about Westwood with pals when the first and largest charge(s) were set off by the Navy. The explosion filled the Sutors in a large black mushroom before subsiding. Over the ensuing weeks, several smaller controlled explosions were carried out. As I remember, one of the Foster brothers who had the photo studio in what was the older Bernards of Harwich shop in Shore Road had a spectacular photo of the first explosion in the shop for several years afterwards. Somebody no doubt has a copy. Mr John MacKenzie, formerly of Cromarty Firth Diving Services, who stays in Evanton, was one of the Navy clearance divers involved in the demolition of the Natal and has an interesting account of the event. The salvage was bought by a Mr Hankey(?) and gun barrels, armour plate etc was eventually taken ashore in the harbour basin at the stone arm before going off south by rail. John Ross, Westwood, now Delny and Mr Savage, Oaks Villa, both worked on the job which I know is documented. As teenagers, my friends and I always took an interest in the work. I am privileged to have seen a copy of the book on the Natal - 'They called it Accident' which is along the lines of conspiracy and details two other RN ships sunk in harbour. It is good that such a tragic event has not been forgotten and is recorded in local history.
Added by Graeme Askew on 21 March 2005.
Added by Graeme Askew on 21 March 2005.
Graeme - was your grandfather Ian Askew? My grandfather also worked on the pilot boat, otherwise known as the harbour master's launch....and they always had to watch out for the wreck bouy of the Natal. It was clearly marked..I am surprised to hear that some people have no knowledge of the Natal. There is a picture of Ian Askew on the pilot boat, see picture #397. My grandfather was Fachy Dunn.
Added by Harry on 24 March 2005.
Added by Harry on 24 March 2005.
My Grandfather was John MacKenzie, one of six men who died on the vessel S.Y. Disperser which foundered off the North of Scotland Coast whilst engaged on the salvage of the wreck of H.M.S. Natal.
Added by Gloria Thirtle-Watts on 07 April 2005.
Added by Gloria Thirtle-Watts on 07 April 2005.
In response to the comments by Mr Geddes regarding history lessons - things have changed. I was brought up in Invergordon and learnt lots about local history during my time at Park Primary thanks to my primary seven teacher Catherine Mackay. Our class wrote a book and put on a show called Invergordon a Town at War (WW2). We interviewed lots of local people. It was a great way to learn, getting lots of the town's older residents involved too. The show was great fun and the book is a lasting reminder of what went on in Invergordon during WW2. Catherine and her pupils have done books covering different time periods in Invergordon, which should all be available in the library.
Added by Gillian Laing on 20 June 2005.
Added by Gillian Laing on 20 June 2005.
Yes, my Grandad James Vendome Raines perished along with approx 600 other unfortunates on the 31st December 1915. Whilst in England in 2000 I went to the Chatham Memorial and photographed his name. Does anybody know if there is a memorial at Cromarty?
Added by William E Smyth on 26 June 2005.
Added by William E Smyth on 26 June 2005.
My father-in-law, C W Flynn, was on HMS Canada and witnessed Natal blowing up. He told me some years ago he piped "man lifeboats". All I know he was at Scapa on the Canada and aged about 17. He died at the age of 100 years in 1998. He also told me HMS Vanguard (?) also blew up he thought by magazine problems.
I wish now I could ask him more after reading the interesting comments!
Added by Roy Mawbey on 16 August 2005.
I wish now I could ask him more after reading the interesting comments!
Added by Roy Mawbey on 16 August 2005.
I have just found this website and hope someone can help me. I have just learned that my grandmother's half-sister married a James Edward Brice in 1911. On the marriage certificate he is listed as a "stoker" for the H.M.S. Natal. Is there a list of those who died and/or who was on the ship when it was blowing up? Any help appreciated.
Added by Janice on 18 August 2005.
Added by Janice on 18 August 2005.
Janice, I doubt that your James Edward Brice, was on board HMS Natal at the time of the explosion. Natal was sunk in 1916. If he was a casualty then he would be listed in the Commonwealth War graves site, which I checked and he is not listed. Even if his remains were not recovered he would be listed as a casualty. Again he is not listed. So he must have survived the war....He was most likely on another ship at the time. It is common to transfer, or be transferred to other ships...I found my fathers grave on the Commonwealth war graves site and hoped I could help you this way. Sorry, but perhaps some navy man could put you onto some other way through the Royal Navy, good luck
Added by Harry on 19 August 2005.
Added by Harry on 19 August 2005.
Janice, I have lists of the Natal survivors and casualties and James Brice is on neither. As Harry says, he must have been transferred to another ship before the incident.
Added by Estelle Quick on 19 August 2005.
Added by Estelle Quick on 19 August 2005.
Estelle & Harry, Thank you so much for your comments. I can continue to search for him!
Janice
Added by on 20 August 2005.
Janice
Added by on 20 August 2005.
I am researching the men who died in WW1, who are on our village War Memorial, with a view to writing a small book on them. One of them was Lieutenant Guy Titley R.N, aged 24. He was killed when H.M.S Natal blew up. He is mentioned on our two War Memorials and on his mother's grave in Duffield’s Cemetery. His mother had died just a year before. A truly sad time for this family. I have found this web site very helpful in the background to the sinking. It is also good to see so many other people interested in the history and people who lost their lives in WW1. If anyone has any pictures of the officers of HMS Natal it would be very interesting to see them. If you would like pictures of his memorials please let me know and I will send you them.
(The picture can be seen at picture #770)
Added by Warren Osborne on 27 December 2005.
(The picture can be seen at picture #770)
Added by Warren Osborne on 27 December 2005.
HMS Natal blew up after being visited by either 2 or 3 ammunition experts. The same people also visited other ships which also blew up in mysterious circumstances in the English Channel. These people were questioned about their role in the events but nothing could be proved. They eventually ended up in Russia. There is a book called "They called it accident" - I don't know the author but it gives theories on why and how the ships were blown up.
Added by Douglas Will on 16 January 2006.
Added by Douglas Will on 16 January 2006.
My great grandmother's younger brother was killed aboard the Natal - Harold Parfitt. The comments and photos on this site have been very helpful to me. Many thanks to all contributors.
Added by Kathryn Gray on 22 February 2006.
Added by Kathryn Gray on 22 February 2006.
HMS Natal was at the time of her demise the top gunnery ship in the navy ..yet she never fired a shot in anger (i.e. at an enemy). She was considered to be an unlucky ship after she carried the American ambassador's body (he had died in the UK) back to America..sailors are a very superstitious breed.....
Added by Duncan Murray on 29 March 2006.
Added by Duncan Murray on 29 March 2006.
Hi, Gloria, there seems to be a bit of a mystery concerning S.S. Disperser. My Grandfather, Murdo Mackenzie from Invergordon was the Chief Engineer and his body was found on the beach at Kirkwall, Orkney. Others who died were:- George H Absom (Captain, Cromarty); James Anderson (Mate, Middlesbrough); my Grandfather; John Wood Macdonald (2nd engineer, Cromarty); Alexander Shepherd (seaman, Cromarty) Douglas Shepherd (seaman, Cromarty son of Alexander); Andrew Watson and Charles Watson (both seamen of Cromarty); Ernest Southall (seaman, Cromarty); John Mackenzie (Fireman, Inverness); John Maclean (Fireman, Cromarty); Robert Spence (Cook, Cromarty). Their names and the ship are engraved on the plaque honouring Merchant Seamen in The National War Memorial, Edinburgh Castle. Any more information would be appreciated Thanks!
Added by Rosalie Samaroo (Graham) on 03 April 2006.
Added by Rosalie Samaroo (Graham) on 03 April 2006.
Hello Rosalie, thanks for the information about the S.S. Disperser. I did not know that the names of the men and the ship are engraved on a plaque at Edinburgh Castle. I am hoping to get more information so will certainly let you know!
Added by Gloria T-Watts on 03 April 2006.
Added by Gloria T-Watts on 03 April 2006.
The Disperser foundered in poor weather in Kirkwall Bay in April of 1940. Presumably with the outbreak of war, salvage operations on the Natal had ceased, and the Disperser was employed on more pressing needs in Orkney waters.
Added by Ronald Stewart on 03 April 2006.
Added by Ronald Stewart on 03 April 2006.
Graeme, don't know if the wreckage you are talking about was actually on the beach. This in actual fact was one of the floating naval target hulks with a network of poles on it at which the ships fired their big guns. This one was broken up into three sections one section below the old cement shed. The second was level with the end of the ferry slipway and opposite our house in Shore Road. The third section was on the beach about three hundred yards below the old coal yard.
My father and Sandy Russel's father used to go down to the section by the cement shed and separate the large square logs from the main section - these logs were held together by massive nails about 3 feet long and quite thick.
While they were removing the logs they found shells of many different calibres sticking in the wood. I can remember my mother having a press clipping of my dad and Mr Russell posing with some of the shells. This would have been between 1937-39 time. Maybe somewhere in the paper archives there might still be a copy of the picture.
During the war we used to go to the section below the coal yard and collect the metal - mainly rivets - and take them to the scrap yard where we were paid sixpence a load; this was spent on sweets and comics. The scrapyard was just near the slaughter house and the scrap was used towards the war effort.
Graeme, did your parents live on Clyde Street on the opposite corner to the YMCA with a garage across the road from them, also next to Tommy Ross's back yard?
Added by Douglas Will on 03 April 2006.
My father and Sandy Russel's father used to go down to the section by the cement shed and separate the large square logs from the main section - these logs were held together by massive nails about 3 feet long and quite thick.
While they were removing the logs they found shells of many different calibres sticking in the wood. I can remember my mother having a press clipping of my dad and Mr Russell posing with some of the shells. This would have been between 1937-39 time. Maybe somewhere in the paper archives there might still be a copy of the picture.
During the war we used to go to the section below the coal yard and collect the metal - mainly rivets - and take them to the scrap yard where we were paid sixpence a load; this was spent on sweets and comics. The scrapyard was just near the slaughter house and the scrap was used towards the war effort.
Graeme, did your parents live on Clyde Street on the opposite corner to the YMCA with a garage across the road from them, also next to Tommy Ross's back yard?
Added by Douglas Will on 03 April 2006.
Douglas, I remember the "Target" that had a marker pole on it for when it was high tide, you could walk out to it at low tide....located as you say opposite the end of the ferry slip. I understand this is all filled in now..you mention Sandy Russell's father - would that be Willie Russell? I often wondered what he did for a living....
Added by Harry O'Neill on 04 April 2006.
Added by Harry O'Neill on 04 April 2006.
Gloria and Ronald, thank you for your comments. I was told 1) the Disperser hit a mine in the North Sea on 14 April 1940 (correct date); 2) foundered in a storm, and 3) foundered while acting as a hospital ship. It would be nice to know which of these is absolutely correct.
Added by Rosalie Samaroo (Graham) on 04 April 2006.
Added by Rosalie Samaroo (Graham) on 04 April 2006.
Yes Harry, the area between the seawall and that target has now been filled in. Couldn't believe my eyes when I came round the corner of Shore Road and saw it. The channel there is very deep and there was an oilrig moored just off where the target used to be. During the war a Sunderland landed between that target and the shore - remember the sandbank by the target? - well the Sunderland came to an abrupt stop on that - very lucky, otherwise he would have hit the ferry slip or the RAF pier and that would have been disaster. Nobody was seriously hurt but I would think very shaken up. They used to pull in all the sunk and crashed seaplanes up on the shore between the slip and first pier. I can remember they found either a Botha or Blenheim and that too was dragged up there. From what I can remember they found that plane purely by accident as they were looking for a sunken Lerwick at the time.
Added by Douglas Will on 04 April 2006.
Added by Douglas Will on 04 April 2006.
Rosalie, re Disperser.
1 The wreck is lying in Kirkwall Bay "just outside Kirkwall harbour", and has been identified, not in the North Sea.
2 This seems the most likely.
3 A boom defence vessel like Disperser would be an unlikely choice for use as a hospital ship. There were no medical personnel listed as lost with the ship. A more suitable type of vessel would have been found for hospital work.
Added by Ronald Stewart on 04 April 2006.
1 The wreck is lying in Kirkwall Bay "just outside Kirkwall harbour", and has been identified, not in the North Sea.
2 This seems the most likely.
3 A boom defence vessel like Disperser would be an unlikely choice for use as a hospital ship. There were no medical personnel listed as lost with the ship. A more suitable type of vessel would have been found for hospital work.
Added by Ronald Stewart on 04 April 2006.
The book which relates the story of HMS Natal is entitled "They called it Accident" and was written by one A. Cecil Hampshire and was first published in 1961 by William Kimber & Co., London. The publication is long since out of print. The other ships which the book relates to are demise of the battleship HMS Bulwark which blew up and sunk at her moorings near Sheerness, Kent on 26th November, 1914 and the Dreadnought class battleship HMS Vanguard which similarly blew up at her moorings in Scapa Flow, Orkney on 8th July, 1917. According to the book, crew losses of each vessel were put at 390 (HMS Natal), 766 (HMS Bulwark) and approximately 1,000 (HMS Vanguard). The book gives a good account of each disaster, particularly the Natal, with the author consulting Admiralty records, findings of the Naval Courts, documents of civilian companies who attempted to salve the wrecks and of course survivors and other eye witnesses.
Added by Graeme Askew on 05 April 2006.
Added by Graeme Askew on 05 April 2006.
Thanks Ronald for your comments. Any idea why she sank ?
Added by Rosalie Samaroo (Graham) on 06 April 2006.
Added by Rosalie Samaroo (Graham) on 06 April 2006.
Hi Graeme, thank you for information re "They called it Accident ". Are you Hamish or Ian's son ? The Askew family lived along the road from us in Clyde Street. My Granny was Mrs Mackenzie.
Added by Rosalie Samaroo (Graham) on 06 April 2006.
Added by Rosalie Samaroo (Graham) on 06 April 2006.
Rosalie, I am Hamish's son. My father died in 1989 and my uncle, Iain, is retired and now lives in Inverness. I stay in Bonar Bridge but am currently working in the Middle East. My grandparents used to stay at 65 Clyde Street for quite a number of years opposite of what was the YMCA which they owned for a short time. I have access to the book "They called it Accident" which I would glady transcribe and put on-line for historical purposes and the benefit of the local community and beyond but obviously there are copywright issues which I assume prevent this unless anyone can suggest otherwise. I think I may also have extracts somewhere from the "Ross Shire Journal" 44 years ago column which gives some detail of one of the salvage attempts on the Natal in the 1930s.
Added by Graeme Askew on 06 April 2006.
Added by Graeme Askew on 06 April 2006.
Rosalie and Ronald: I have two press cuttings. One states the SY Disperser was engaged on the salvage of the wreck of HMS Natal and the other about the funerals of Mr. John MacKenzie, my grandfather and the funeral at Cromarty. Gloria
Added by Gloria T-Watts on 06 April 2006.
Added by Gloria T-Watts on 06 April 2006.
Gloria, the Disperser was certainly engaged on salvage of Natal, but with the outbreak of war, these operations would have been suspended and Disperser diverted to other duties in Orkney. It was whilst employed on these other duties that she was lost. If the newspaper claimed that Disperser was lost whilst actively involved in salvage of Natal, then I would suggest there is an error in the report. The wreck of Natal, and the wreck of Disperser are some 100 miles apart. As the Disperser was lost in wartime, there is no detail of the cause, apart from bad weather.
Added by Ronald Stewart on 07 April 2006.
Added by Ronald Stewart on 07 April 2006.
Gloria and Ronald, thank you for further comments about the Disperser. I feel sure that you are right, Ronald, about the loss of the ship. Your account seems perfectly feasible and I am quite satisfied with that, ....although.....A mine?????
Added by Rosalie Samaroo (Graham) on 07 April 2006.
Added by Rosalie Samaroo (Graham) on 07 April 2006.
Graeme, I just thought you might be Hamish's son but I wasn't sure. I knew your grandparents as well although your Dad and Ian are a wee bit older than me. It's nice to meet you through this site!
Added by Rosalie Samaroo (Graham) on 07 April 2006.
Added by Rosalie Samaroo (Graham) on 07 April 2006.
I have been reading this site since I came across it in February this year. If anyone has more information about the Natal I would be very interested. As I mentioned in my February entry, my Great Uncle died aboard the ship. My mother has a Christmas card he sent to his mother shortly before he died. I live in Australia and it is rather difficult to research from here. Many thanks.
Added by Kathryn Gray on 08 April 2006.
Added by Kathryn Gray on 08 April 2006.
Hi, Gloria, Graeme and Ronald, I have just obtained the book "They Called it Accident " (thanks also to Douglas). In the closing chapters and I quote "In August, 1939, Hitler invaded Poland and the Second World War began. Nevertheless the salvage operations went on at Cromarty, for scrap metal had now become vitally important. Then, on the night of April 14th, 1940, a great storm hit the north-east coast of Scotland. The little "Disperser" was lost with her entire crew, nine of whom came from Cromarty and one from Invergordon, and grief once again shrouded the small community." The "one from Invergordon" was my Grandfather - Murdo Mackenzie who was Chief Engineer Officer.
Added by Rosalie Samaroo (Graham) on 20 April 2006.
Added by Rosalie Samaroo (Graham) on 20 April 2006.
Although there is probably further information elsewhere, I have found a notebook with some information on Disperser.
There are several entries for her arriving and sailing, but the final arrival is dated Friday 10th November 1939. The next entry on Tuesday 21st Nov reads, "Disperser due to sail at sunset, failed to complete". An entry on Wed 22nd suggests she had sailed overnight. As there are no further references to the vessel, I can only assume she did not return to Invergordon but spent her last 5 months in Orkney waters.
Added by Ronald Stewart on 21 April 2006.
There are several entries for her arriving and sailing, but the final arrival is dated Friday 10th November 1939. The next entry on Tuesday 21st Nov reads, "Disperser due to sail at sunset, failed to complete". An entry on Wed 22nd suggests she had sailed overnight. As there are no further references to the vessel, I can only assume she did not return to Invergordon but spent her last 5 months in Orkney waters.
Added by Ronald Stewart on 21 April 2006.
Thanks Ronald, my Grandfather's body was found on the beach at Kirkwall, Orkney, so it looks that you are right.
Added by Rosalie Samaroo (graham) on 21 April 2006.
Added by Rosalie Samaroo (graham) on 21 April 2006.
Such a pity that the hull was blown up. It was a memorial to all those lost.
Added by Margaret Marion Dyson on 23 April 2006.
Added by Margaret Marion Dyson on 23 April 2006.
There is further information on the Disperser tragedy on the Cromarty Image Library site, a sister site to this one. Apparently the Disperser had been sent north after the outbreak of war, in order to lay mines in Orkney waters.
Added by Ronald Stewart on 14 May 2006.
Added by Ronald Stewart on 14 May 2006.
Can anyone confirm that a Robert Wills was one of those killed when the Natal blew up? My mother, 85, has just discovered that her father, George Wills, had a brother called Robert. Whilst sorting through old papers, she came across a letter from Robert to her father sent from the Natal. She had no knowledge of her Uncle Robert before the letter was unearthed, and is interested to find out all she can.
Added by Jane Marsh on 16 May 2006.
Added by Jane Marsh on 16 May 2006.
Jane, he is not listed in the Commonwealth war graves commission site, so he must have survived the war and was probably on the Natal at an earlier date....
Added by Harry O'Neill on 16 May 2006.
Added by Harry O'Neill on 16 May 2006.
Came across this whilst trying to find out more about another incident which I am sure I read about ages ago (in the Scots Magazine?). I think the story was that one of the ships anchored in the Firth fired a salvo (at a imagined submarine?). Unfortunately the shells landed on shore (on the Black Isle side?) and destroyed a croft? Have tried googling the web but with no result. Can anyone thow any light on this?
Added by John Hendry on 08 July 2006.
Added by John Hendry on 08 July 2006.
John, I recall once being told a story of a house or croft, I think, in Jemimaville in the Black Isle being destroyed or badly damaged by naval gun fire but don't think that there was loss of life. Sorry but I can't remember any more detail of the event but am sure somebody on the Cromarty home page will have more accurate knowledge of the event.
Added by Graeme Askew on 08 July 2006.
Added by Graeme Askew on 08 July 2006.
This incident is mentioned in the book "This Noble Harbour - A History of the Cromarty Firth." Quoting from page 196, "and the Cromarty Firth's very own submarine scare took place, the famous 'Battle of Jemimaville.' In late October (1914) the Battle Cruiser Squadron commanded by David Beatty, later to be Commander-in-Chief, was moved to Cromarty. As it steamed slowly into anchor a 'periscope' was sighted in the waters of the Firth. Accounts vary as to what it was; some claim it was simply the wake of a ship, others that it was a ten foot long fishing buoy that had broken loose in the Moray Firth and drifted into the Cromarty Firth. Firing commenced, and shells landed on a number of houses in Jemimaville, injuring a baby. The afflicted family was visited by a naval doctor and officer who assured it that THREE submarines had been hit. Years later one of the naval officers present at the time recalled: '...no Bar (has) yet been issued for the Battle of Jemimaville, but for those who were present it remains a treasured memory of the lighter side of the war.'
Added by on 08 July 2006.
Added by on 08 July 2006.
Just to put to rest an earlier link - we had the wrong surname for my mother's 'uncle', whom we had assumed was her father's brother because of the letter Robert sent to him. He turns out to have been called Robert Williams, and I have found his name on the Commonweath War Graves site as having met an untimely end on the Natal 30/12/15 along with many other crew members. He was the Telegraphist, and was just 20 years old. Now I just have to find out his connection with my family, as his parents' names, as listed on the war graves site, give no clues. Thanks for the help following my first enquiry in May 2006
Added by Jane Marsh on 18 January 2007.
Added by Jane Marsh on 18 January 2007.
Ronald, thank you for the further information re The Disperser. My Granny's official letter (she told me) that her husband was killed when the ship was blown up having struck a mine. That is why his name, Murdo Mackenzie, Engineer Officer, is on the Invergordon War Memorial. Also I have a certificate from the Naval records at Edinburgh Castle confirming that he was killed.
Added by Rosalie Graham now Samaroo on 18 January 2007.
Added by Rosalie Graham now Samaroo on 18 January 2007.
My Great Uncle Robert Henry Lomas drowned when the Natal went down. I believe he was 15. His name is on a memorial in Chatham. His younger brother and that younger brother's son, my father, both served in the RN for many years.
Added by Bob Lomas on 19 February 2007.
Added by Bob Lomas on 19 February 2007.
Those interested in the detail of the accident which sank HMS NATAL, and/or the explosions in BULWARK and VANGUARD, should look at a recently-published book 'Arming the Fleet' by David Evans. It's published by Explosion! - The Museum of Naval Firepower at Gosport (Yes, most people with any knowledge of naval ordnance HATE the museum's name - but once you get over that the museum is well worth visiting); and among other subjects covers the stability of naval munitions (Yaaaaaawn - unless you have to store and handle them). There was much talk of sabotage at the time, and has been since - people love a Conspiracy Theory - but 'Arming the Fleet' makes it clear that cordite, introduced in the early 1890s, was alarmingly prone to deteriorate to a point at which spontaneous combustion occurred. The deterioration took some years, so it was a while before the penny dropped - a propellant originally thought to be much safer than gunpowder (in a test carried out in 1897 the bottom box of a stack of cordite boxes was fired in a magazine, and burned fiercely but without igniting the others) could reach a point at which the whole contents of a ship's magazine would explode with little or no warning. Prior to 1914 there was a string of accidents caused by deterioration of cordite, but those concerned thought the problems had been solved by introduction of stringent testing and improved storage/handling procedures. During WW1, however, the greatly-increased demand by the Army for munitions led to corner-cutting in their manufacture and storage: it is also possible that RN ships were issued with cordite which in peacetime would have been regarded as over-age. Sabotage was in reality most unlikely - the magazine explosions in all three ships were literally 'accidents waiting to happen'. At the same time, however, further improvements during the war in the manufacture of propellants and explosives made them much safer to store and handle - I think I'm right in saying VANGUARD's loss in 1917 was the last explosion in a British warship attributed solely to unstable ordnance.
Added by Mark Brady on 20 February 2007.
Added by Mark Brady on 20 February 2007.
My Gt Uncle, Ernest Banyard died in the Natal on 30th Dec 1915. He is on the RN war memorial at Chatham.
Added by Ken Holway on 09 May 2007.
Added by Ken Holway on 09 May 2007.
A relation of mine was looking out of her kitchen window and saw the Natal explode. She said that there had been a noisy party on board the night before.
Added by Margaret Dyson on 10 May 2007.
Added by Margaret Dyson on 10 May 2007.
If you are looking for relatives, look in the National Archives section ADM for service records. Also look at commonwealth War Graves Commission website to find where people are commemorated on memorials or graves.
Added by Ken Holway on 11 May 2007.
Added by Ken Holway on 11 May 2007.
Archibald Robert Caskie, who was in the Royal Naval Reserve, perished when the Natal sank. He is listed on the Chatham Naval Memorial. Archibald was my wife's Great Uncle and if anyone has any information about him, it would be most welcome.
Added by Samuel Trevor Stewart on 13 January 2008.
Added by Samuel Trevor Stewart on 13 January 2008.
If you found this interesting, have a look at the following groups of pictures.
The Natal - Warship destroyed by an explosion off Invergordon during WW1
Added by Bill Geddes on 24 December 2004.